John Barrows has held every position in Sales including inside, field, channel, executive management and ownership. He continues to sell every day using the techniques he trains to some of the world’s leading tech companies including Linkedin, Marketo, HP and Salesforce. He is also the bestselling author of ‘I want to be in sales when I grow up’.
John was featured on our Limitless Webinar series on Feb 26 2020 at 11 AM EST. It was an insightful session on personal branding and here are the key takeaways from the webinar.
Key takeaways from the webinar:
- The 2 different sides of social selling
- The power of personal brand building and what it can do for your career
- How to build your brand in an authentic way
- How to integrate personal brand building into your routine
Watch the complete webinar:
Transcript of the webinar:
Speaker: John Barrows
Host: Nikhil Premanandan
Nikhil: Hi guys! Welcome to another episode of Limitless Webinar by Hippo Video. My name is Nikhil. I’m the host of this webinar. There’s a little bit about me. I contribute a lot of guest posts to Neil Schaffer, Social Media Examiner. And I’m currently the head of marketing at Hippo Video.
What is Hippo Video? It is a personalized video distribution platform. So I’ll just give a brief introduction about Hippo Video, what we do that will only be about, you know, four or five minutes and then we’ll dive into the topic.
So Cisco predicts that by 2020, 18 percent of global Internet traffic would be videos. Now, in the business value, what we are seeing is videos are being adopted by different functional streams. So marketing campaigns spraining collaboration, sales, customer support and success and how they distribute this particular all these videos that have been created through blogs, Web sites is landing pages, mobile apps, social media, collaboration systems, campaign systems.
So how can sales teams actually use videos to close more deals and crushed their quotas? So let us dive into that.
Let me just quickly, just share my screen.
Everyday sales reps send hundreds of mundane text emails hoping to get a response or a meeting. If you are one of them, we know your struggle. However, to prospects, all these text emails look the same. How can inside sales break through this noise to stand out?
Simple! By humanizing your selling with personalized videos. Start by including videos in your sales outreach record. A quick intro video. Edit it online, personalized the thumbnail and send it via email video email humanizes your conversations, makes you look real and gets you those coveted responses to interactive calls to action in your videos to encourage your viewers to book more meetings. Account executives can also make the best use of Hippo video. Include personalized sales pages in your emails to move your prospects quickly through the sales funnel.
Hippo video lets you personalize your entire sales page with the curated content that instantly connects with your prospects. You can send quick video intros, product demos, customer testimonials and contract PDFs on the same page and share it about video. Provides a Real-Time View or analytics to help you see how your potential customers engage based on the analytics. You can easily plan your follow ups and close deals effectively. Video is integrated with popular sales platforms like Salesforce, HubSpot, Outreach, Marketo, Outlook, G-Mail and Mailchimp.
You don’t have to juggle between tabs to set your video sales funnel in action. Using hippo video sales teams can seamlessly convert leads into customers by incorporating videos throughout their buyer’s journey. Isn’t that wow? Use videos to speed up your sales and sell your brand better.
Nikhil: So that is what Hippo video does for, you know, sales teams and practitioners of sales. Right. So let’s dive into the webinar. So we have John battles with those guys. So a brief intro about John. John is currently the CEO of J Barrows sales training, he’s like, we all know he’s a world class CEO.
It’s been so people who follow, you know, John on his Make it Happen. Monday’s podcast. So you already know that John continues to say every day and he uses these techniques to train some of the world’s leading tech companies, including LinkedIn, Marketo, HP and Salesforce.
He’s the best selling author of I Want to Be in SALES When I Grew Up. An excellent book needed. Number one is for Children, Jobs and Careers. We’re also promoting that particular book, 250 of our largest friends of this particular webinar. He’s also listed as the top 30 social salespeople in the world by Forbes and one of the top 25 experts by building. So let’s dive right into the topic. Housing steps can build their personal brand to sell.
John, over to you. Let me stop shedding my screen so that you have absolute control.
John Barrows: Awesome. Well, thank you very much. McKeel, I appreciate it. Thanks, everybody, for joining here. And that’s what we’re you know, we’re going to talk.
I mean, brand building is one of those things that’s a little bit you know, I always have to caution as far as personal brand building is concerned, because I think it’s extraordinarily important in today’s world. But I also take into consideration where people are in their careers and what they’re selling. So, you know, if you’re brand new in sales and you’re, you know, twenty two years old and you’re, you know, selling into a market, you’ve never heard nothing.
You know, you’ve never you don’t know anything about. You don’t. You know, you’re just trying to learn. You know, brand building is not exactly easy. So what I’m going to try to do here is I’m going to try to connect business acumen, which I think is extremely important, is actually even more important. But how it will lead to personal brand building to actually attract more people, but also how to close more deals and how to put yourself in that position of the industry expert here.
You know, because there’s plenty of stats out there. And I think I have one of these slides that the IDC talks about, how, you know, people consider the expertise of a sales professional prior to making the buying decision. And if you’re a five and if you’re known as a thought leader in your industry, you’re five times more likely to get the business than if you’re not. And look, I’m not going to 10 like we’re all going to become thought leaders overnight here.
I think that’s a little ridiculous, but we can start to move in that direction. So I’m just gonna talk about some super practical things that we can do on a day to day basis to improve our business acumen and build our personal brands so we can start to kind of attract more and close more deals. And by the way, throughout we’re gonna have a good Q&A at the end, but feel free to throw some questions throughout the whole session into the chat forum, because I can I can kind of jump into those, especially if they’re relevant to kind of a topic that that I’m addressing.
I know somebody already threw in one about forgetting where it is, where’s the check go here. You can see it for some reason. So anyways, but there are some questions in there.
All right. About this. Cause I really do think this is kind of the next wave of where we’re just at the inventories right now. SALES reps building their own personal brand and learning how to do it in an authentic way. You know, influencers, for instance. You know, you see all these influences. I was out there.
You see people spend a lot of money on influencers. Right. Because they’re trying to tie that influencers brand to their brand so that they can elevate theirs.
And it was crazy for a while because there were a lot of fake influencers out there who had fake followers and everything else. And people were giving them a lot of, you know, look at how many people are following them. And I think that’s not authentic. And I think that jumped the shark, by the way, back when it was, what, fire islands or something? It was a documentary where they had that Coachella, the New Coachella, where they had all these fake Instagram followers, whatever, you know, promote this.
This thing that wasn’t really a thing. And everybody got duped on it. So I think people are a little cautious on, you know, the fake influencer piece here. But real influencers, people who have who are authentic, who have real true influence to their audience, that they’re becoming invaluable. And so what we’re gonna talk about. We’re gonna briefly set the stage of why this is so important today. And then we’re gonna talk about building your personal brand while improving business acumen.
And then how to leverage social. To both listen and engage. So again, as we go through this, Nikhil. For some reason, I can’t see the chats. So if you could do me a favor, if there’s a good question that comes up throughout this. If you could just kind of send them to me, otherwise I wouldn’t do that job.
Nikhil: I will. I will do that, John.
John: Thanks, man. All right, cool. So let’s get into it. Let’s set the stage. And I almost do this with all my training. So I’m going to take a little bit of a training approach here instead of just a webinar like, hey, some interesting things. I’m trying to get into some tactical stuff that you can do. And so, you know, this is part of the training. I do want to go face to face with clients.
And I start with this, which is definitely average sales rep, which is. You know, I’m watching sales of diet, a pretty painful death right now and I mean average sales reps, right? Not the ones who are, you know, who are good or great or any of that stuff. People say that there’s, you know, sales reps are going to die. You know, I’m gonna get replaced. That’s not true. There’s always going to be room for sales professionals, good sales professionals to help people challenge them on cover real needs and tie them to the solutions.
But the average sales reps, the ones who are just going through the motions, the ones who are pressing play on their cadence is making generic cold calls, you know, pressing play on demos and stuff like that. Like all of that is going to get replaced. And it’s not going to get replaced. I’m watching it get replaced. Right. I mean, there’s artificial intelligence tools out there now that are writing better e-mails than I ever could. And they’re doing it faster than I ever could.
You know, demos, you know, you got reps going through slide by slide by slide. I mean, marketing can do that better than we can. Right. They can create a kind of a journey for a customer and watch where they sit. You know, what slides they spend the most time on and see, but serve up better information that way. And also, clients are just getting less and less tolerant of us as sales professionals, kind of.
Again, going through the motions. I mean, if you pay attention to was a challenge for yourself, right?
They talk about by the time somebody comes to us, they’re already 60 to 70 percent of the way through the sales process. And if that’s the case, you know, if they come to us and there’s that inbound lead and we’re starting at zero. Right. They’re already educated. So they don’t want to deal with that. They don’t want to deal with our bad questions that we want to deal with our canned demos. They want to know what they want to know.
And so if we aren’t dynamic enough to be able to figure that out, they’re not going to want to engage with us less and less and less because they just don’t see value in us. If we’re just going through the motions. And so with this as context trade, I mean, the question I think we need to ask ourselves right now is what can we do that a computer can’t? And this is actually, you know, it’s an interesting question because it’s getting harder and harder to answer.
Right. I mean, it used to be pretty easy to answer this question. There’s plenty of things. Right. Relationships and all this other stuff. But now it’s getting harder because again, like messages are getting more tailored. And we talk about personalization and how that’s our thing, right? Personalization. I actually disagree with that. I don’t think personalization is as important as it used to be. I think I think now relevance is the most important thing.
And this is why computers are actually they have the leg up on us and marketing has a leg up us in sales because they can be relevant at scale, because they can analyze what we’re doing online and see where we go and then understand our personas and understand our business and serve up information at the right time. I mean, if you think about it, you think about it like everything that’s going on with. Let’s talk about Facebook. Right.
I mean, we all know that the phones are listening.
So so I start talking about a solution or I start talking to my buddy about something I was thinking about doing this weekend or whatever it is that phones listen. And I don’t care what anybody says. There’s no question it’s listen to me, even if I have it off and all of a sudden I log on to Facebook and that article or that that that ad comes up or that promotion comes up for a product that I was just kind of talking about.
And it’s like, Okay, cool. Yeah, I need that. Right.
Because it’s timely and it’s relevant based on who I am, what I’ve done and all that other stuff. Same thing with when you log in to Amazon, when you log in to Amazon, I log in and they’re recommending products that I didn’t even know I needed. But because they know my buying habits and what I’ve done, they’re suggesting things that are relevant to me. Whereas personalization, you know, you could be personalized all it’s all get up. Right.
You could go out there and see the most personalized email of all time or something, the most personal gift I’ve ever gotten. But if it’s not relevant, it’s not if I don’t have a need for whatever your product or service is, then thanks. But it’s not going to really do anything. So that’s why we have to start really thinking about, you know, relevance and personalization. But in the context of how can we do it compared to a computer?
And that’s really what I want to tackle here. And that’s why I think personal brand building is so important, because that’s the one thing that the computer can’t replicate. It is a personal brand. And what it does to build your credibility is to have people paying attention to you. And, you know, this is the study that I brought up earlier which talks about, you know, the IDC came out with this recently that said the vast majority of people consider the expertise on the left hand side.
They consider the expertise of sales rep prior to making the buying decision. And again, on that top graph right there, if you’re known as a thought leader, you are five times more likely to get the business than if you’re not. Now I’m not going to pretend like we’re all going to become thought leaders overnight. I think that’s a little ridiculous, but I think we can move in that direction. Right. And that’s what we’ll share with you of at least how I’ve done it.
Right. In a meaningful way. Because when people first came, you know, when social selling first came out. Look, I’m 44 years old, I’m a Gen X, right? When social selling first came out, I was like, great, you know, yet another thing I got to do to be successful in sales. Fantastic. Added to the list and the whole idea of like tweeting and posting and all that stuff just bothered me, especially just to build a fake following.
And so I just at first I totally discounted it, but it flipped for me after a while when I started to recognize the importance of it and realized that if I focused on myself first, if I focused on learning first, and this is where social selling really did flip for me was when I started looking at it as I should learn the business acumen piece of this, I should be learning about my products, about my solutions, about my industry, about the trends, about the personas that I’m going after.
Right. So I should be learning about that stuff just as a pure business professional here. And so with that lens, you know, I started learning first and then sharing, but only sharing when I thought it was relevant, when I thought it was important. And that’s that. That connector there where if you focus on you first, I’m learning and building your business acumen. And then only sharing when you learn something, that’s when you can start to build your brand in an authentic way.
And if we talk about let’s talk about some macro examples of why branding is so important.
Well, I use this one, like you all know the Rock. Dwayne Johnson. Right. So I love Rock. Do you know how much the Rock charges for the movie studio? So when he signs up to do a movie. Right. The movie studio is gonna pay him, whatever, 20 million dollars, whatever it is. Do you know how much he charges the movie studio to do one post on Instagram, one post to promote his own movie?
A million dollars. A million dollars proposed by Alex. For him to go like, yo! Go check out my new Jumanji to the right. Whatever. A million bucks. And the reason it sounds ridiculous like you got your mind for a million dollars. But you know how many followers the Rockhouse is on Instagram? I think it’s like one hundred and ninety million right now, which is absurd. And so that million dollars now becomes the best million dollars that studios ever spent on marketing.
Because think about it. You got SEO, you got, you know, billboards, you’ve got commercials, you got all that stuff, you got one, you got the rock. One hundred and ninety million people follow the rock. And he says, go watch my movie. Go watch his movie. It’s the most direct marketing you can get. And let’s use another example. Like it’s like Kylie Jenner. You’ll see what Kylie Jenner did a snapshot a while back.
I mean, Kylie Jenner single handedly built Snapchat, but she single handedly ruined Snapchat. And I don’t know if you remember like a while back, like a year and a half ago, Snapchat updated their UI. Right. So it wasn’t good and people didn’t like it. But that’s kind of a that’s kind of the thing about Snapchat, right? It’s kind of hard to understand. That’s why kids love it. Parents don’t get it right. So.
So but anyways, Kylie Jenner really didn’t like it. And she put out a tweet. She goes, so does anybody else. Not open Snapchat anymore? Or is it just me, I am so sad? So she sends out that tweet the day she sent that out Snapchat stock dropped by 6 percent, which was 1.5 billion off of their market cap. You told me personal brand doesn’t matter. And we’re moving into a world where people just don’t trust corporate brands.
They just don’t, you know, like you get me growing up.
We trust Gen-Xers. We kind of trusted corporate brands. I was like, oh, yeah. McDonald’s. It’s yummy and it’s cheap and easy. Right now it’s like, whoa. Pink is gross. Get away from me. And I want anything to do with that. And you’re seeing corporate brands fall off the wayside, left, right and sideways.
I mean, I mean, all the chain restaurants right now are struggling massively because Millennials and Gen-Es don’t want to go to chain restaurants. They don’t want to go to, quote unquote, brands. They want to have more of an experience and that type of stuff. And that’s also happening in a lot of corporations. Forget about food. But also businesses. You know, they.
I actually think that marketing right now. I think companies are going to have to get really comfortable. The next wave of marketing is I think company companies are gonna have to get real comfortable with individuals inside their business representing their brand. Right. And because that face of your brand is it is a person that people can trust as opposed to the corporate message in an easy way to for me to prove this is you know, I look at my LinkedIn.
Right. My LinkedIn profile versus my corporate LinkedIn profile. So the J. Barrows corporate page versus John Barrass’s page I have round almost getting up to 4000 followers on my personal page, whereas my corporate page, maybe ten thousand twenty thousand at this point, something like that. So people because people don’t look to corporations for insights, they look at people for insights. And so how do we do this in an authentic way without wasting too much time, without, you know.
Yeah. Just always on time and we’ll all get in the way of driving results. Because I think that’s the challenge here, is that a lot of people look at corporate personal brand building and say, I get it. I understand how important it is, but I got to hit my quota. You know what I mean? I’ve got to hit my monthly quota. And I will tell you right now, personal brand building. It’s not a short term thing, right?
It’s definitely a long term play. It’s something that is going to carry you throughout the rest of your careers. But it’s not like if you tweet or share something or anything like that, all of a sudden people are going to say, oh, let’s do a bunch of business together. It’s kind of a slow roll thing. So that’s why I really recommend building it into your routine. Right. So doing a little bit every day.
But but again, making the connection here that it’s not just about brand building just to build your brand, build it to like learn first, you learn first and then share. Then you can build your brand and authentic way. And the tools that I used to do this again, I told you I was going to get real tactical here. Feedly is the tool that I used to do this. You’ll notice at the top of the screen here I have this morning routine where every morning I wake up and I grab my dogs coffee here.
Yeah. Boston thunks coffee is way better than anybody else anyways, but I grab my coffee and then from 7:30 to 8:30, almost every single morning, I have this morning routine where, you know, I check some data feeds and it’s just an hour every day and because everybody has their morning routine. Right. I mean, someday I’ll go work out. Good for you. But mine what I did was I used to always used to check my fantasy leagues and get all pissed off about that type of stuff or where my dad still to this day, my dad reads the morning paper like the physical morning paper.
Right. And which is cool, you know, but the problem with the morning paper is I’d say about 90 percent of it is completely irrelevant to what I care about. And by the way, I don’t care what side of the fence you’re on here in the states. If you are watching, if you’re reading the morning paper, you’re getting pissed off. So why get pissed off? Why start off your day getting pissed? I want to start my day like learning stuff that I thought I should be learning.
Right. Again, I should be staying up to date on my clients. I should be staying up to date on on on the trends in the industry and the personas that I’m going after. And so that’s really what I try to focus on, is build my business acumen first. And that’s how I do this. So you’ll notice at the top of the screen here you see sales and Salesforce, Sales Navigator, Owler, Twitter, Facebook and Feedly.
Now, what I do is I take all my account accounts like my top twenty five accounts and I put them on Sales Navigator, our Twitter and Facebook. And I kind of like and shoot, you know, follow them on all those tools. So all I’m doing is as I’m kind of skimming through, I’m just looking for things to make connections with. And this is more direct selling, right? Because there’s two there’s two sides of social selling.
One is listening to the social world to make connections. And that’s the short term play. I saw you tweeted that. I saw you shared this. I saw you posted that. Whatever. And let’s talk about that, because I got something relevant to talk about here. Right. So that’s more of the short term side of social selling. But the long term side is the brand building. And that’s how I use Feedly. And I’m really going to recommend everybody do this.
So think of the industries that you sell into. Think of the personas that you sell into. And go find all the thought leaders in those spaces, so with Feedly, again, it’s FEEDLY for those looking, it’s a free resource. All it is now is an RSS aggregator. Okay, so let’s say there’s like five or six different blogs. You like resales, blogs, you like reading. Usually you have to go to five or six different sales websites to see those blogs or get five or six different emails to hit your inbox.
With Feedly you can go in. You create a folder called sales blogs. We see on the left there and then you just put all your sales blogs in there. So when you open it up, you just kind of skim all the headlines here. And so for me, for instance, Artificial Intelligence, like I am fascinated with what’s happening with artificial intelligence and specifically as it relates to sales. Right. And some of the new things that it’s the impact it’s having on sales SAAS. That’s my industry, that’s when I spend most of my time.
And so I follow all the thought leaders and sites, sales, blogs, obviously sales training and social selling. So tip for you out there, like say say you are that kid. That’s that 22 year old kid and you are now selling security solutions and your company is asking you to sell to CISO, chief information security officers. I mean, again, at 20, like who in the world, like CISOs, pretty complex job, right?
All this other stuff like I’ve never been to see. So I don’t know how to. I don’t know what their job is. I don’t know the details of it. But I can learn enough to have a decent conversation with one of them. So what I’m going to do if I’m selling, say, it’s CISOs and healthcare, I’m gonna create a folder called CISOs. And I’m going to go online, I’m just going to Google CISOs thought leaders 2020, maybe even CISOs healthcare thought leaders 2020 and go find the three or four top thought leaders in that space.
And I’m going to put them into that folder. And then when I wake up in the morning, that’s what I’m reading. I’m just reading those articles and some of the trends there. I’m going to join LinkedIn groups of those people and not to troll for leads, but to listen to what these people are talking about, the questions that they’re asking. Because you don’t have to know everything about a role. Right. You don’t have to be the industry expert in sales.
I firmly believe that you don’t have to be a product expert. You just have to know enough. Right. To put some context around your questions and to be thoughtful with your with your approach and then pull the right pieces like the sales engineers, the solutions architects, whatever, and put them in a position and quarterback the deal. But you do have to know enough. You know, for instance, like, you know, I’ve always been a priority based seller.
Right. Where I fully understood that, you know, when you’re CEO stands up in the beginning of the year and says these are the three things that we got to focus on this year to be successful. I fundamentally understand that if I can’t tie my solution to one or two of those things, good luck selling anything of significance. Right. So I’ve always been a priority based seller, but in order to get there, the way I used to get there was by saying stuff like ‘Tell me about your priorities’.
You know, if I would say that very general statement, I usually get very general answers like all revenue. Let me show you could impact your revenue, right. But now I go in and I do a little bit of homework on what CISOs and healthcare care about. And I walk into a conversation to say, you know, so I’ll do a Google search and I’ll say CISOs health are priorities challenge 2020. Read a few articles or I’ll go on I’ll go on the job boards like Indeed or something like that. And I’ll type in the title and the industry of the people that I’m trying to get in touch with. And I’ll read through their job descriptions and I’ll say, okay, what do these people care about? So then when I get in touch with the CISO in the healthcare industry, instead of saying, tell me about your priorities, I can say stuff like, well, you know what? We typically deal with CISOs and health care.
And they’re telling us that 2020, the top things on their mind are X, Y and Z. Those yours. Even if they’re not. The fact that you show, you know, their world a little tense, open up the conversation a bit more. Right. And so that’s how I kind of use Feedly here. So you’ll notice. You know, I’ve talked earlier about this routine and I have this morning routine. And I think it’s super important to have a routine because it’s kind of like working out.
Right. It’s why I suck at working out because I’m an event driven worker outor. Right. I’d like so, for instance, over New Year’s, right. We were on a little vacation. We went on a little cruise down the Caribbean. And so what was I doing a couple of months before that? Right. I was on I was at the gym and working out. I mean, good. Right. Then I went on vacation and came back and I got pizza.
Beer. okay, great. Right. And then I’m like, oh, going on another vacation, the march. You’re gonna go back to the gym, you know, wrap it all up. Summer’s coming. I know that if I just woke up everyday and did a little, you know, did a few pushups, a few sit ups and hit the elliptical for like maybe 15, 20 minutes, I’d maintain. Right. But I saw it because this is what happens.
It’s the same thing with brand building. It’s the same thing with prospects, it’s the same thing with everything if you have routine doing it. And all of a sudden bakes in and now you do it. So don’t treat brand building as an event. Don’t just like prospect and don’t drink like quality prospect as events got a building in your routine. So this is mine. And all I’m doing is again, scanning through data feeds on my clients and seeing if I can find those triggers again to make direct connections.
But I’m also doing this and I’m reading these articles. I noticed that that one right there. So Keith Rosen’s if time is money then your daily routine is priceless. So I came across this article and I actually think it’s kind of interesting. So I read it right. And again, with the focus on learning first, I want to learn first, and then if I learn something, that’s when I share it. And that’s what happens here. The build is wrong.
Sorry about that. I’m going to take this. Jules, movie studios think this went on here, but then. What happens is let’s go back. You’re right. We’ll see that line. You know, those seventh or eighth line down there. If time is money, well, I open it up and I read that article.
And then on that, see the little right under there, it says like linked in Twitter, those are other things that after I read something and I and I get value out of it, then I share it. I click on the LinkedIn, Twitter thing, whatever it is, and it opens up. And I put a little bit of context on top of it. Right. Context over content. That’s really what we need to focus on right now to stay relevant.
You know, I stole that one from Gary V. You know, he talks to everybody says everybody talks about content is king. Content is king. Is it fine if the content is king, then context is God. And that got me thinking about marketing versus sales. Marketing is content. SALES is context. If we had sales professionals not putting any context around our content, there would be no difference than marketing. And I have no idea why we’re getting paid to do it.
That’s why I just sharing stuff is meaningless. Dude, I’m begging you. Do not just share stuff. Don’t just like re-tweet, right. I give you I got a 39 page ebook here. Like so many thirty nine page e-books I have in my fingers things to read folder off all the other things to read folder. But I got one. It’s the largest folder in my entire inbox. I haven’t read a single thing in there. Right. But if you have that e-book, a really good thirty nine page ebook here, if you’re a V.P of sales in the SAAS industry, try to integrate social selling into your routine.
You might want to take a look at pages 3, 5 and 7 because there are some really good tactical things. Okay, or for instance, here’s one for your context over content.
Say your company puts on a lot of webinars or a lot of events, oaky, and that e-mail goes out to your entire database. Hey, we got this webinar coming up. What I’m gonna do is I’m going to take that email. I’m going to grab my top twenty five Tier 1 accounts, right? Executives are going to forward that email to them and say, I’m not sure if you got that email that marketing just sent out there about this webinar that we have coming up with this event that we have coming up.
The reason I think you should go to it is because. Right. So you make that personalized. Right. And then say they sign up for the webinar and they don’t attend. Well, then afterwards I’m going to say, hey, say I saw you sign up at our webinar, I noticed you missed it. Based on what I know about you, if you actually start listening to this webinar ruminant 13 and go from 13 to forty five like or thirteen to twenty five or something like that.
There are some really cool stuff in there that I think you might get some value on. That’s context over content. That way you can start to show yourself as somebody that’s more than just a robot. More than just somebody who’s just trying to build our brand. Just to get followers. And again, sharing content like this gets people to pay attention to you, because look at a lot of questions, well John, like, you know, I see you, I see James, I see Morgan and you’re always putting out content, man. You’re writing blogs. You’re doing videos like and I just you know, I don’t have a I don’t have time to do that. And B, I know, I’m really not good at that. You know, I’m not good at writing. I’m not a I’m not great on video. Whatever it is, I’m kind of uncomfortable. So what should I do? And look, you don’t have to do it.
You don’t have to be the content creator. Okay. You don’t you all. All you have to be in today’s world is the content curator because you think about it for a second. They wrote that I read a blog. It’s a weekly blog. It’s kind of a pain in the ass. I’ve been writing for five years and I’m straight up front and I should say like straight up run out of stuff to say so. So it takes me about a week every day, every week.
I got to sit down for about an hour. I got to think of like, I know what I’m going to write, you know, and then I write the thing out, whatever, and I send it over to my team and they SEO it and all that other stuff. And then they put it on HubSpot and get it out there.
And so we’re probably two to three hours into any one blog post right now. Say, I write this blog post, okay? And you are connected to me. So we’re connected. And so you read my blog post and you get some value out of it, so you think it’s pretty decent. Right. So what you do is you take my blog post that I spent two to three hours putting it up. And you share it, right? And you put a little context, a really good post by John here that whatever that is.
Right. And somebody you’re connected to reads my blog post because you shared it and they get value out of it. Who do they think? They don’t thank me. I might get another follower. Right. Oh, I like John’s voice here. But they don’t thank me. They think of you. They don’t say, Hey, John, thanks for writing that article. They say, hey, thanks, so-and-so or whatever for sharing that article.
So I did all the work. You get all the credit. And that way, if we make that connection of absorbing and consuming content to learn and then sharing it with our context, we can start to really do some cool stuff. We can start a really we can check off a lot of different boxes at the same time, not just brand building the brand build, but brand building to educate, learn and build. And a lot of times you wonder like, okay, well, you know, how do you remember what to share or where to share it?
Because not only do I build my brand kind of from a broader perspective. But now let’s talk about how to use brand building and business acumen to accelerate deal cycles and stay connected with prospects. Sometimes what I’ll do is and this is a recommendation for you. During the quarter, during the discovery phase, I got a client on the call, right. And I’m discovering and I’m asking them questions, whatever, I’m going ask them questions about what they like.
Right. Hey, where are you on social selling? Where are you on artificial intelligence? Those types of things. And now say they say, you know what, John, this all sounds great, but we’re not we’re not ready yet. We’re just not interested, you know, right now. But why don’t you touch base in six months? So what I’m going to do here is and here’s a question to ask somebody who says that once you touch base in six months, ask them this question verbatim.
How do I stay top of mind between now and then without being annoying? Because what you don’t want to do is just call in six months to go. You told me to go in six months. Could you be joking? Right. So you say don’t. Hey, look, I’m habitus out in six months. First, Well, what’s going to change between now and then and how do I stay top of mind between now and then without being annoying at all?
Sometimes even preface before they even answer. I’ll say, you know, because I try to stay up to date on what’s happening in the industry. I try to read stuff on stuff like social selling and those types of things. So are there any topics that if I come across something that I think is valuable that, you know, you get some value out of and they’ll usually say, well, you know what, John? Yeah. You come across any new tools and I feel free to share those or, you know, any any new tips on on how to engage, whatever it is.
Right. Okay, great. Then what I do is I actually and I’ve actually configured Salesforce to do this.
And yes, it’s not lightning yet. So I’m communiship that whatever. But we’re making the transition now, now. But in Salesforce, I’m in the contact phase details. Right. I have a section called Interests now interests. These are all the things that I talk about, like, hey, where are you in social selling? Where? And these are I incorporate into my discovery phase. And so then after I get off the phone with you, I go into this intersection, I check off the boxes to say, what are you interested in?
Right. And then I follow those topics on Feedly. Then when I come across a kickass article that I learned something from, then what I do is I share it out there on social, obviously. Right. Hey, really good. That’s the build my bigger brand. Then I run a report at Salesforce that says, I want to see every VP of sales in the SAAS industry of my Tier 1 accounts. Who cares about social selling? Right. That might only be a list of three or four of them.
But what I’m going to do there is going to take that. I’m going to send it to them. Hey, I remember two or three months ago you said you were really interested in this. I came across this article I thought was really valuable. Here you go. And that way, in one hour a day, I’ve probably sent out two or three really high quality emails to my clients that I’m actually following on some of the social listening tools.
I’ve read an article or two that I’ve learned something from to build my business acumen. I’ve shared an article or two out there on social media on LinkedIn and Twitter to engage at a higher level, you know, to build my bigger brand. And I’ve shared a couple of articles with some clients that I’m still trying to stay top of mind with. Right. And that in an hour a day, I’ve checked off like fifteen different boxes of value for myself and my audience.
And if we can’t figure out how to bake that into our process, ladies and gentlemen, I don’t know what you’re doing. You say you’re busy. Like I’m calling bullshit on people being too busy because they got too much stuff to do. And if you really want to compare calendars here, it gets pretty gross pretty fast for me. Like I know my. See you. Sure. You like on a day to day basis. This is I mean, this is a decent week for me because I’m actually home this week.
But I mean, my schedule is booked every half an hour. I mean, usually it’s I’m travelling in all those big blocks or me traveling and stuff like that. And so like here’s one three, you know, three days or so. But I still do this almost every day because it just builds into my routine. And so with that, just a few more pieces here just to hit on here, because I wanted you know, I want to kind of circle back on that listening phase two for social selling.
And these are the tools, right? If you’re not using our please, it’s a free tool. Put all your Google alerts on steroids. So you take those top twenty five and you put them on sales navigator, Owl or Twitter and Facebook and then you do the Feedly thing. And again, here’s your routine. So here’s my routine right every morning. Those five tabs all show up or six tabs all show up at the same time I use I use chromes like an auto load, all the bookmarks.
And all I’m doing is I’m just scanning through stuff and I’m noticing like I look at the RVP or at open text was looking at my profile a little while ago and maybe it’s because they bought carbonates. There’s a reason for me to reach out to them. You know, you can track on very specific triggers. You open up a new office, launch a new product, whatever that is. All these reasons for me to reach out to these clients right here.
Twitter, right? Twitter. Sorry, on Twitter like you can have it. You can build a list on Twitter and in some that right. But if we go back to lessees funding as a way to accelerate deal cycles or engage with private clients. When you when people go through funding. By the way, I stopped using funding as a reason to reach out to people because God help that person that’s on that list. Once it hits CrunchBase, they must get 8 billion emails from sales.
As I got a bunch of money and I’m going to spend it right. What I do is I use funding, so I’ll get us something like this. They got funding or they got acquired and I’ll use it as my quote unquote touching base. Let him know I’m paying attention. So, for instance, like Andela awhile back, you know, they got 40 million in funding. I had a really good call with Andela. Like a really good call with them prospecting lines.
But she just said, John, we’re not ready yet. So why don’t you touch base in six months? So great. So what’s the best way to communicate with you moved forward here? And, you know, how do I stay top of mind without being annoying and ask those questions? And then I put them Owler. And I get this alert about a month or two later that they got my funding right. All I did was say, hey, congrats on the funding, how things are going well.
Again, it’s just my hey, I’m just letting you know I’m paying attention. She gets back to me with John, thanks. Hope things go well for you, too. And then a few days later, she’ll say that we’d like to re-engage.
So brand building, if you will. If you’ll look at it as education and paying attention and really just kind of I, there’s a Gary V book. It’s called Jab, Jab, Jab, right hook.
Right. Which adds value. Add value, add value. Then ask all I’m trying to do is jab enough to stay top of mind. So when the right hooks are necessary, I can actually sell them. And that’s where personal brand building and sharing content comes into play. Is it kind of setting the stage for that right hook? Because if you’re constantly trying to share and add value and and not always sell. Not always be like I want to talk to you. I want to talk to you. I want to talk to you. Eventually you start getting people to come to you as opposed to you pushing on them all the time. And then going back to my routine, here’s Twitter, like you can build a list, put all your clients on a list, right. And so instead of it all being messy and your Twitter feed, you have a prospect list, have a client list. I’m looking for things.
And even Facebook, you know, I have a dummy Facebook account. I got my own personal Facebook account. There’s some definitely some weird shit on there.
But I have a dummy Facebook account and I go like, oh, my top tier accounts on Facebook. Maybe sometimes websites aren’t really all that active, but their Facebook pages on, right? I look for stuff like Informatica or they got a new CEO a while back. And that’s really it. Right. That routine. So if you set this up right again, think of the two sides as social selling, listening to the social world, which is what this is all about.
Right. Like setting up these systems, the hours, the Sales Navigator, the Twitters. And then you think about building a brand with the feed like educating yourself and learning through tools like Feedly and that type of stuff. And you do that an hour a day. You start to really engage with people and you build your brand and authentic way. People start to look at you as that industry expert without having you without you having to fake it.
Know the whole fake it till you make it thing I think is total crap. Don’t fake it till you make it. Ask genuine questions. You know what I mean? Like when? Like, let’s go back to the example of the CISO. The 22 year old kid said you read an article from a CISO posted out there and try to ask a question. Hey, and here’s what I got from this article. I’m curious what any CISO out there is, you know, thinks about this.
Now, if you could chime in, I’d really appreciate it. Something like that. You’ll learn a ton along the way by people engaging with your content. And when you engage with other people’s content, don’t just like or share or whatever, but put a thoughtful comment in there or ask a question to them. And I’m going to beg you, beg you, beg you right now as somebody who unfortunately. Well, fortunately, because of the position I’m in.
It is the recipient of this. A lot of times people tag, quote unquote, influencers all the time in their post to try to engage. So they like it because they want, you know, somebody else’s eyes on them so they can improve. Don’t just tag people to tag them, please. That I will never connect with. I will never comment on somebody’s post if they got fifteen different people that they tagged just because they want me to look at it.
But if you really want me, for instance, or some other quote unquote influence or to engage, post something out there and then be very specific, say, hey, John, I know you talk a lot about brand building and social selling. I read this article or talked about this. I’d love your thoughts on that. That’s where you can get me to engage. All right. So just a wrap up and then we’ll take some questions here.
You know, the key takeaways from this focus on educating yourself first. All right. Don’t look at this as I got to build my brand just to build my brand and get a bunch of followers to learn first. Business acumen is critical. Right. Share content with context. Don’t just share just a share. Share it with context. And your ideas, your thoughts and your opinions. Jab way more than you right hook. Right. This is the whole giver’s game, right?
Like you give, give, give, give, give. And eventually it’ll come back to you. But that’s why it’s a long term play here. It’s not a short term thing if you’re going to tweet something out. The likelihood of somebody being like all those, a great tweet, let’s talk is not high. And then and then. Well, I can’t recommend enough is setting up your routine. All right. So set up your routines so you can kind of do this on a consistent basis.
So it’s not an event that you have to do. And that’s it. That’s my story and that’s how we can stay relevant here. That’s how we can stay relevant. Your personal brand will prevent you from getting erased from from technology and all the tools that are out there. It will elevate you and I promise you it will benefit you throughout the rest of your career. And I’ll just make one last point, which is. Let’s look at it this way, say as we’re moving forward here.
Right. So you go for a new job, okay. And there’s two people or you go in for a promotion in your existing company and it’s you against somebody else. And you and the person that you’re going up against has a bunch of followers super engaged on social and got a decent influence. And you don’t have anything. But you’ve hit the same quota. You have the same results. Okay. Who do you think gets the nod for the promotion for the job?
The person with the brand. I guarantee it. I guarantee. All right. Get up in the lap. Actually, one more thing.
James is on this radio. Morgan, James and Morgan are both absolute examples of what personal brand building will do for your careers. I did not hire James. I did not hire Morgan off of a job posting. I did. I didn’t put it out there, say, hey, you know, I’m hiring. Right. The reason I hired James and the reason I hired Morgan was because they were both putting out content. And I noticed them online.
And after a while, I eventually said, you know what, I want to come over here and work. You know, do that over here. And both of them. Yeah. So it took them from, you know, individual contributor roles now to flying all around the world doing some really cool shit. So if you want to see a testament to personal brand building, follow those to James and Morgan and let me know if you have any questions here and we’ll open it up.
So cool, Nikhil, you want to take over with some of the questions that came in?
Nikhil: Yeah, I do. Excellent, excellent tactics. And we have been following Morgan and James, so we really can do that.
So one of the first questions that I want to ask is no marketing concludes the message usually in a company. Now, how can sales reps be themselves when, you know, marketing wants to control the message and how can they actually, you know, be the best sense with that?
Yeah, I think that’s the challenge that I see a lot of times as marketing is a little bit too controlling. Right. They don’t want sales reps to do anything. And that’s where I think you have to like don’t try to do it kind of outside and not really about your business, right. Just do it about the industry and those types of things. So, you know, the easy way to do it with marketing in mind is to take the marketing content.
Right. Whatever they put out there, e-books, their website. You know, there’s stuff like that. Read those articles. Don’t just share them. Right. Read their case studies, read the articles and then share them with a little bit of your context. So that’s going to make the marketing department feel good, right? Because it’s like, hey, they’re sharing our content with just a little bit of your flavor on top of it so you can do it that way.
But then on a side, again, do what I was saying earlier as far as like read topics and articles and don’t again, don’t share it to be like, hey, look at it like, hey, look at my company here. Like, this is what we’re doing in this space. Be genuinely curious. Be genuinely thoughtful about what you’re trying to learn about this space and share content that way. And then just in my opinion, ask for forgiveness over permission.
Right. Because if you’re out there and you’re sharing content and you’re doing an authentic way to try to learn to try to, you know, be helpful to the audience out there, and then marketing comes knocking on your door and says, hey, stop doing that.
At least it’s a conversation to say why, you know, and hopefully, you know, if you’ve done a good enough job, you can show engagement in what you’ve been doing. Right. And you can take a look at their engagement versus your engagement and say, hey, look, at the end of the day, when I share a piece of content for our business, I get, you know, five likes and maybe one comment or something like that.
When I share content about this industry, about the personas and my perspective, I’m getting a hundred likes and, you know, 50, you know, 10 or 15 comments. From a marketer standpoint, you should know the branding is important and engagement is the key here. So I can stop doing this if you want to, but my opinion is doing nothing but benefiting both of us here. So your choice.
And then if they really put the clamp down on you, then you really do that, do you do have to start kind of looking at it and saying, all right, you know, is this really where I want to build my career here? And if it is, stay with it. Right. But, you know, maybe start looking around at other options.
Nikhil: Yeah, totally, totally understand. Now, like you mentioned already in this, I’ve been told that people who start people are now believing personal brands more than the corporate brands. So exactly it goes with what you said right now.
So if you know, people elected to, you know, engage using their personal social media, is there any way that you know you would propose to get them on board, to get them to start using, you know, that personal social media profiles to start promoting work.
John: So to say that again, so you do like somebody is just getting started on this?
Yes, yeah, yeah.
I mean, first of all, it’s all about where your audience is. Right. So so the idea here is this kind of goes through sales, right. Like you want to figure out who is your ideal customer profile? What are the personas within that ideal customer profile that you sell to and then get a list of them and just see kind of where they live. And I say that, you know, socially, not literally. Right. So where are they?
Are they on LinkedIn? Are they on Twitter? Are they all right? So give an example. My wife, she sells to local governments here in the states. Those local governments, local governments really aren’t on LinkedIn all that much. They’re really not on you know, they don’t do a lot of Facebook stuff, but they are on Twitter a lot. Right. So that’s how they communicate with all their audience. For the most part.
Right. So she’s she focuses most of her efforts and sharing content on Twitter. Yeah. My audience is obviously on LinkedIn. Right. That’s where I focus most of my efforts. But if you are a you know, if you’re an image, you know, if, say, it’s a you’re into like fashion or something like that, obviously, then, you know, Instagram is gonna be a way better place for you to build it. So it starts with understanding where your audience is.
Okay. And then once you understand where your audience is, you start to follow all the people that are the thought leaders in your audience space and start to again, don’t worry about sharing content. Right. As far as quantity is concerned, share focus on learning first. Right. To me, brand building is way more about quantity than it is quality, and people get way too caught up with how many likes or how many shares or how many comments I got.
Who cares about any of that stuff? To me, it’s about the engagement and it’s about are you doing this for the right reasons? Right. Are you sharing content because you find it valuable or are you sharing content just to get likes? And if you’re sharing it to get content like, you know, again, it’s still from Gary V here. If you know, I’d rather have 10 people follow me on Twitter. And when I share something on Twitter, all 10 people do something than 10000 people following me on Twitter. And when I share something, nobody does anything. Right. So don’t worry about things like the.
Don’t be don’t get a complex if nobody likes your stuff. It’s. It takes a while, right? It takes a while to start building it, but the key is engagement. It’s not like or share. You know what I mean? Like. Or shares its engagement. How many people are there? And that’s where all the algorithms work on.
Right. So LinkedIn, Twitter, all that stuff it likes is fine. But how many people comment on your thread? That’s what’s going to boost you to the top. That’s what’s gonna get more people paying attention to you.
Nikhil: Awesome. So this actually brings me to my next question. Now, let us say now people are switching jobs. Right now, they’re building authority on what they call blackphone because that is where the ICP was. Now they have switched companies.
And, you know, there’s a different ICP and a different platform, but they have to be there. Now, what do they do in such a scenario? They didn’t have to build stock from scratch, I believe. But what is their deal?
John: Yeah, I mean, that is a tough one, right? Because now because that also, you know, makes you question, why should I build my brand if I don’t think I’m going to be in this industry for the next five, 10, 15 years? Right.
Exactly. And again, I think it just goes back to genuine curiosity in trying to be better, in trying to be good at what you do when you make that switch to another. Like what people are interested in these days. They’re interested in the journey. okay, they’re interested in being a real person and learning by watching other people learn. And so if you share your journey, you people will come with, you know what I mean?
So, for instance, like if I was shifting from sales training, for instance, to, you know, selling security services to the CISO. Right. I’m actually going to like, talk about that.
You know, going to be like, hey, you know what? I just moved into another industry. You know, I know I got a great I built a big following in sales training and that type of stuff. I got to learn now what CISOs care about managed services and those types of things. So I’m going to start to learn a little bit more in that space and I’m going to start to share more information that way. Right. And you just make the shift of your learning, but you bring your audience you tell your audience why you’re making the shift.
Right. And you share your journey of what you’re learning along the way. And that’s what they like. That’s the thing about things like Snapchat and those types of things like Snapchat and Instagram stories and that type of stuff. I get way more engagement on my Instagram stories on my Snapchat than I do kind of anything that I post as a tile or something like that. Because people care more about the kind of the behind the scenes, you know what I mean?
Like all where’s John? Like, where’s he traveling to now? Like watching the journey of what? The journey I’m on to try to figure out how to build my business and that type of stuff and all the learning lessons along the way and the mistakes I’m making. Like some people like the real factor, like that’s what people care about. Don’t don’t try to fake it till you make it. Don’t try to pretend like you know what you’re talking about when you don’t just straight up say to people, look, I’m making a shift in industries.
You know the reason here’s the reason I made that shift, because I’m super interested and I thought this is a great opportunity, whatever it is. But I’m now starting from scratch here. So I got to start building this and you’ll see. Yeah. There’ll be a bunch of your followers that’ll stop paying attention because they kind of knew you for one thing. Then you’ll start building a brand, another area, and then you’ll probably three to five years later start to do something different.
But guess what? You know, a portion of each one of those groups is going to stay with you along the way. Yes, right. And that’s gonna do nothing but benefit you in the long term, your career.
Nikhil: There is one question one question. So is there something called content overload then sharing too much content? Is that an ideal one?
John: Yes, I think chewing too much content that’s not valuable is bad. Right. So I think this is where you get in danger of just, oh, I’m gonna post every day and you start posting stuff that is just weak. You know what I mean? Really weak and not very valuable in any way, shape or form. That’s where I think it’ll hurt you.
Right. But if you got something to say, if you got some valuable content and some thoughts, you know, like two, three times a day. I mean, think about it. Like, login in to LinkedIn. And something I post right now in five seconds is 50 rows deep in LinkedIn. You know what I mean? So so if I posted again, I mean, unless people are literally just staring at my LinkedIn profile all day, which I hope not.
But you know what I mean, unless somebody is like literally staring at like you’re probably. Yeah, there might be a few people that look at you and say, dude, you know what I mean? You’re too postum way. But people pop in and out of social channels. So the likelihood of you hitting somebody like, you know, five times the same person is not high. So I really wouldn’t worry about it too much if you are posting valuable stuff.
Now, I’ll go back to Gary V.
You know, Gary V for me is like he’s one he’s in a different world, right? Because he’s got millions and millions of followers. And and, you know, he’s posting everything all over the place. And for me, personally consuming Gary’s stuff, you know, I kind of come in waves with Gary, stuff like I’ll consume a lot of his content and I’ll be like, well, this is all really good stuff. And then after a while, I kind of start soon hearing the same thing over, okay, hustle and, you know, blah, blah, blah.
It’s like I get it right. So I’ll take a break. You know it. And, you know, for a month or two. And then I’ll kind of come back in and say, oh, you know, he’s got some new stuff to talk about here. Right. So I think that’s a little bit. But that’s because of him and what he does right. For us, I think as long as you’re staying consistent with it, that’s the key is consistency.
And you’re not just it’s like e-mail, right? Like spam email. Spam people paying attention to I know some Sanjana here ask the question about how is social change cold calling?
Exactly right. It’s cold calling. Email social if you do it templatized, if you do it generic, I don’t care how often you do it. I think it’s a waste. Right. So. So let’s go cold calling that answer. You know, I love the way social selling has changed. Cold calling is if you have a brand, you might actually that person might actually be familiar with you when you call. So the likelihood of them paying attention to you is higher, right?
Because if you’ve lived in a commoner’s, shared something of theirs. Right. And you’ve engaged with them on social. It’s an impression game today. It’s not about a single email. It’s not about a single voicemail. It’s about impressions. Right. They see you. They hear you that, you know, all this other stuff. And then when the time’s right, that’s when you like your top of mind. Right. So if you do enough social brand building and stuff like that and then when you make that phone call to that person, they might actually know you. You know what I mean? They might actually recognize you either consciously or subconsciously. And then the other side that is impacted, cold calling is it’s it’s made it.
So you don’t have to cold call like literally cold call. And when I think of cold calling, I think of a list of names that I know nothing about and I’m making a call with a generic elevator pitch, like that’s what I think of cold calling. But if I can read you online, if I can see your social profiles, I can get a sense of what you are, what your business does, I can be super relevant on that call.
And so, therefore, it’s not a cool call to me. It’s a much more of a warm call because I kind of know you write so I can be way more relevant to when I reach out to you want to know on a phone call.
Nikhil: So one last question before we wrap this up. So this person is a marketer and he wants to help, you know, his sales colleagues to get more leads from social selling. So how can a marketer, you know, go about building a brand for the sales team, which you actually help them, you know, to get more leads and you know, build their network.
John: Yeah, I think it’s about giving. I think it’s about being selective with the content that you share, like bringing content to the sales reps to help educate them and sharing it with a context.
Because the problem with sales reps is when they talk about business acumen, sales reps don’t pay attention to it. I know I din’t. My business acumen was a bi-product of my activities. I was just kind of go, go, go and I would say, you know, ask a stupid question to a CEO and the CEO would say that’s a stupid question. That’s okay because I won’t ask that again right. So, I think if marketing helped us with that business acumen piece, that is a very tactful marketing. Grab a lunch and learn with that team, grab a persona of selected pieces of sales in SAAS, okay.
And bring that up on sales. This is what based on what we know, based on marketing intelligence, this is what sales teams in SAAS are challenged to deal with today. This is what they care about, okay. This is the day to day challenge they face with or better, bring your VP of sales into that lunch and learn. Do a Q&A with them about what are these people care about, what’s going on, and then feed the team with information about that of what these people care about and help them understand how you solution is in line with that so that they can kinda start to learn more about these personas and have some empathy when they are reaching out to people.
Rather than helping your sales team with social selling, help them with business acumen first.
Nikhil: That’s a wrap from us, John. Thanks for featuring on this webinar. For a lot of folks out there, please join us on our next week webinar. We have Sangram Vajre, the chief evangelist of Terminus, joining us on the webinar. You can also follow John on LinkedIn and please follow his Make It Happen Mondays podcast on iTunes and Spotify.
Thanks a lot John for making it happen.
John: Thanks a lot guys for joining us today. I appreciate your time.
Nikhil: Thanks a lot guys. Bye bye.